Front Suspension Research

[rodw]

Hi Guys. Well with a bull bar, winch and dual battery on my rig now, I want to turn my attention to a front lift. Please don't talk about rear lifts in this thread.

So what are the options?

Well there are the kits out there from EFS, ARB, TJM. From what I hear, the ARB ones sag so what was the best kit for my old Vitara is scratched from the Hilux before I start. I was hoping to get a bit more lift than what these kits offer and was hoping for 3-3.5" if I could and I know I might run out of caster adjustment.

I met a few of the guys at Ormeau w while ago and I think it was Chris-Hiluxury87 (or was it Marc-GreenHiluxGuy?) who has the Skyjacker kit from CalOffroad which gave him 4" which ended up a bit too much, so they backed off a bit. So who's got em? What are they like? They mentioned about $1,600 for the kit and my mates at Fourby fit em for about $2,200.

Then there is the Bilstein option. Sounds like they are a good system with their adjustable rings. They have been used with a number of springs and from my research, it seems that the King Springs is the best option. So who's got em? What are they like? What other springs?

Mmaaxx and I shared a few PM's (go the mighty SR's) and I rang his mate, the suspension guy. Quite liked his setup and might go that way. My concern is that VIC is a long way from QLD and tthe Desert Fox stuff is pretty well unhead of if I need a new strut up here. So who else has them? what are they like? I know Mmaaxx is wrapped! Tell, Rob I want the high lift CV boots now Mmaaxx!

I rang a Kings Springs distributor near me and he suggested Konis to go with the Kings but I went cold when he mentioned $1,080 a pair. So who's got Konnis? What are they like? Are they really worth spending double the money on? Said when he fitted them and Kings to a Hilux, they just managed 1 degree of caster at 45mm-50mm lift and did not recommend any higher .

Please wait for part 2 before posting as I am out of characters now.

Rod

[rodw]

Part 2

I have a set of SuperChaep spring compressors here but after seeing a pic of what thye look like with 3 on a Hilux spring, badly bent due to the stress, I have decided I won't be compressing the spring myself. I'm thinking I will buy a set of strut top hats and get somebody to fit springs to the strut so I can slip it in and get it aligned. This menas I can buy my front susepnsing anywhere, I just have to ship the top hats to him.

So what am I thinking. Currently, while I like Mmaaxx's setup, I think Melbourne is too far away (DId I tell you I want some of those CV's?)

So at the moment, I am thinking I'd go with the Bilsteins and Kings as this would give me an option to lift a bit more by changing the Bilstein setting if they sag. The first setting is an extra 1.75", somebody here said that they knew somebody who had Bilsteins with an extra groove machined in. I thik that will be about +.8" Who sells those? That might just fit the bill for me.

So that is the result of my research. What have I missed. What do you think? Please add your ideas to this thread.

Rod

[9W6VX]

Rod,

Macca uses Koni dampers and he's happy with it.

I use Billies up front with Kings KTFR-101. You should use the HTFR-101HD heavy duty version since you have a winch and dual battery.

I'm very please with it and running 31psi on the Warngler AT's give me a very pleasant ride.

Cheers and good luck.

Brendon

[Hilux Max]

Melbourne - too far away????? :o

only as far as the courier can get too mate.



anyway, heres a pic for those that might not know what Rob and I are talking about, its the Desert Fox 3 inch raised Foam cell strut -


After fitting the ARB bar and the front end sagging, got me mate to make up another ring that goes at the bottom of the strut on the lower shaft - 15mm spacer equals 30mm lift so now it sits just over 3inches-



By the way, thought Id post up what the front end of a TRD hilux looks like aswell -




Different brands do have different ways of modifying them to get that little bit more. Bilstein have the "groove thing"
and you can always just get a 2 inch front strut from ARB or the like and then get somebody to fit a 35mm Snake Racing strut spacer.

or go the whole hog, expensive hog mind you, and get a snake racing or Ultimate suspension drop bracket lift to get 3.5 or 4 inches with factory CV angles.

Then again, you can get REALLY illegal and import from USA EBAY a Pro-Comp 6 inch drop bracket lift that would allow you to run 35/12.5x16's with no rubbing at all, even when coming off an airborne landing!!!!

others care to chime in

[Doug67]

Theres no Bilstein in the country atm says Climax suspension and hear the same from "bj". I seen some Ironman today go in a Lux which is adjustable for height but done differently to the Bilsteins. Good luck with what you choose it's not clear cut in what system you should use. Have a talk to Ken at Ultimate he has some new things happening to straighten the cv's including I think new control arms etc.

[Doug67]

mmaaxx

The Ironman shocks use the same system as your shocks to change the heights and there white as well wounder if there the same shock.

[rodw]

Max, Correct me if I am wrong, but don't those rings you have do the same thing as the Bilstein Circlips? Add preload to the spring and lift the rig? MAybe Rob's trick is in the spring. How much lift have you got now do you think? Sure that TRD is too clean to be yours!

Brendon, You reminded me that I probably need to add a bit more air to the fron tyres now with a bar and winch!

Doug, I think I could find stock up here with retailers if you are looking for Billies. PM me and I'll try and remember who I was talking to today.

Rod

[rodw]

Doug, you might be right. I read something somewhere about that, but can't really remember.

I wonder what springs Ironman use? I was told they are cheap enough.

Rod

[SR5 2NV]

What does everyone think of the rancho 9000 shocks?

[Doug67]

My billies where repaird today, so new ones not required, x fingers.

[rodw]

Ironman says to expect 35mm lift for IFS kits... not enough for me!

[Wade]

Billies went on Tuesday... lifted from 460LHS/470RHS to 550ml each side. 50ml blocks on the back also.. $270 each per side... I used the standard springs and they will most likely be replaced with the King springs mentioned above. Ride has been great so far... Will give it a test this weekend.... And btw... I had an extra groove cut into the billies approx 25 ml higher than the exisiting top grove to get a little extra...

POST UPDATE
Lift is 740ml both sides from bottom of flare to bottom lip of the rim... I think thats how most measure them.

[Hilux Max]

doug,

dont know what the ironmans setup are like. but if they are similar then they are good value for money I think. I had ironman foam cell shocks in my last hilux and loved them.

rod,

not sure on the bilstein setups but I think the circlip thingy is slightly different. Robs "trick" is not in the spring, its either this ring addition that he's done to mine, only one other hilux has had it fitted so far. I wasn waiting for him to make up for me another top hat that'll gimme the extra height that I wanted. But he was having trouble with the bloke that was making em for him, I waited like 3 months and in the end this was the option we took instead.

Desert Fox do have an even larger foam cell shock absorber out now but they are not rebuildable for more height. also, Rob does have an adjustable height coil-over setup too if your willing to spend the little bit extra.

In regards to different Upper Control Arms, Im surprised that nobody here in Australia has taken off with them yet - in the states its part and parcel with almost every suspension kit there on their Taco's.

I'd be interested in a different upper control arm for the extra clearance that it gives you for wider tyres on less offset rims (i.e. the widest you can run on a +30 factory offset is a 275 width before it touches the top of the control arm, thus a 285/70x17 tyre would clear with an aftermaeket upper control arm) allowing for your tyres to stay under the flares and tucked inside the guards more. also allowing you to run 12.5 inch wide tyres with some cutting mods that we cant really do now.

Total Chaos sell them for Taco's which should suit our vehicles for 600bux US.

[Hilux Max]

The A-arms are typically used for a couple of reasons as mentioned.
- Gives you the potential to get more front wheel travel. (uniball
and arm does nto hit the coilover as easily)
- Helps move the top joint back to give you more cater after a lift,
thus easier to align.
- Gives you more strength in the upper arm and joint (uniball vs
balljoint and also arm materials itself.
- Minimizes rubbing on the arm from coiover and oversize tires
(typically 315/75/16s will rub nicely on the stock arm at full lock
turn), Also with a lot fo lift and droop the arm will hit the coils
on the coilover itself.

[Hilux Max]

A couple of things to note on these arms:
- They tend to be noisy at both the uniball and the poly bushings
(make sure to grease the poly bushings)
- Make sure that the arms will give you the caster you want, as they
were originally designed on the Tacoma and 4Runner (very similar to
the Prado, but it seem the Prado and FJC come slightly higher from
the factory which has affeted a difference in stock arms between the
Tacoma and FJC here in the US)
- To get more travel you need the right cilover setup as Darren
noted. Locally Donahoe Racing makes extended coilovers that gives
about an inch (25mm) extra front wheel travel with uniball upper
arms. No issues with compressing these shocks, but the OME or
bilsteins might be another issues. You wont get more travel if you
don't address the coilover.
- Donahoe Racing also makes upper arms with a top dust seal adn fully
adjustable, you will however need to get a shop that knows their
stuff to make use of these arms.
- If you get extra travel it will be good for washboard roads, but
the swaybar will limit articulation of the front in slow situations.
- Watch your CV angles if you lift the truck more than 3" (75mm). Teh
boots don't tend to last long if the fins rub. Also the inner boot
starts to leak pretty easily if the CV gets extended too much.
- If you remove the swaybar and let the front droop that much extra,
it is far more likely to break the front outer CV when going over
rocks and technical terrian, as it extends that much more and the
angle gets worse. This is especially true if you have a front locker
and bigger tyres

Just thought Id add some more info there, sorry for the long post!

[rodw]

mmaaxx,

You are a fountain of knowledge about this stuff. I also wondered about the aftermarket control arms they use in the US. I'tll take me some time to digest this. Lots of ideas in this stuff now. Might send Sean at Low Range Offroad in the US an email to see what he knows about the Hilux as I have bought some stuff from him in the past. Might also talk to Donahoe racing. I think I have a shop up here that knows what they are doing. Fourbys are 4WD specialists and between them run a few comp trucks.

Thank for all the info. I think this has become one hell of a thread.

Rod

[GreenHilux Guy]

Rodw, you obviously want to put the best kit on your car and then never need to worry about that compnent instead. If that is the case and ou are a bit flexible with the budget then you only have the one option.

Give Charlie a call at Wizard (07 5529 3246) he will send you some info on the total chaos upper control arm replacement kit. This is by far head and shoulders the superior kit for our cars. It allows a lift from 0 to 4 inches by choosing the length strut yoiu perfer whilst maintaining stock caster angles. The guys who have had this fitted have gained 6 inches of travel up and down due to the removl of bushes replacing them with metal heim joints.

It is very strong, discrete and if you couple it with fox racing remote 2.5" shocks, you will be set for your front end for life.

here is the link http://www.chaosfab.com/96504.html
I will be getting this kit soon as the funds allow. Plus they reckon its a total bolt on. Plus the fox strut is alreay a coil over so you won't be needing the compressors.

let me know what you think. Cost wise, the fox setup will set ou back about 4, or 3300 with dirt logic shocks.

[olcoolone]

I would not say all ARB springs sag, we have ARB suspension in our Hilux and have not had a problem.

All suspension kits will sag over time.

Regards Richard

[whitehilux]

Hi Rodw

Like you I have a winch and bullbar and needed a 50mm lift. After much research I fitted a set of Tough Dog shocks and springs and achieved the 50 lift without compromising the ride or handling. After 30,000 kms they have preformed faultlessly and no probs with CV's

Cheers

[rodw]

GHG, Sounds interesting, but a bit more than what I've got left to spend at this point in time. Don't think you should tally stuff up. Up to about $10k so far since I bought it and still got a fair lift.

I sent an email to Sean at Low Range Offroad in the US, a Suzuki nut, and he has passed my enquiry to his brother who is the Toyota man, so let's see what we come up with, I need to give him a bit more info...

Whitelux, was that Toughdog lift of 50mm based on a lift after the winch and bar went on?

Rod